Skyrim talk:Heljarchen Hall

Same Upgrades for All Three Houses

I am the one who posted the table of things needed to upgrade the two main portions of this home fully. I can confirm that it is the same for all three houses as I just went through both the others. 66.79.63.160 04:53, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

I understand that this page was created using the format of the standard purchasable houses in mind, and while it is a purchasable player home, I don't believe we should use the same type of format for this page (this goes for Lakeview Manor and Windstad Manor as well). Because these houses are customizable, a list in this format of all the various upgrades would have to be either incomplete or incorrect. Listing 27+ different options of customizing the home would not only be overly long and unhelpful, it would mean duplicating information which isn't specific to each house on three different pages, which does not follow the style guide.

There is a construction page describing information on building and expanding a home, and there are now separate pages for each individual addition you can add to your home, so linking to those pages from each individual house page should suffice. I think it would be best if we used these three house pages for information which is unique to each house— such as the fact that each one has a separate exterior building option that the others don't, the location of all the exterior amenities in relation to the house, the housecarls that are unique to each house, etc.

Would others agree on removing this large table from each of these three individual house pages and trying this instead? — ABCface^◥ 17:39, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

I think that's a fine idea.24.22.241.1 20:32, 9 September 2012 (EDT)

I concur. Not only is it a duplication of information, I think having the table on each house page as it is currently suggests to a newcomer that there is actually a difference between purchaseable items for each house. Threepwood87 (talk) 20:55, 9 September 2012 (EDT)

I also agree. We should link to the information we have, rather than duplicating it. • JA^T 23:24, 9 September 2012 (EDT)

(←) If no one opposes making this change within the next day or so, I'll go ahead and do so. — ABCface^◥ 22:10, 12 September 2012 (GMT)

Waking Nightmare Quest

I was going to correct this in the article but couldn't.

You do not have to complete the Waking Nightmare quest to obtain this property. I have never done that quest on any character and yet own the property with four different characters. If you free the Pale from Stormcloak control and Brina becomes jarl, she will allow you to purchase the land without ever doing any quests for her. You do not have to finish the entire Civil War questline; only the part with the Pale. Presumably this is the same for the mirror quest on the Stormcloak side.

I also have one character who has done neither the Nightmare quest nor the Civil War quest for the Pale but was sent a letter via courier to purchase the property. I didn't have to do any "favor" quests, but it's quite possible that that one was a glitch. I just wanted to clarify this in case anyone else dislikes doing the rather annoying "Jarl favor" quests but still wants Heljarchen. CRRose (talk) 05:40, 5 October 2012 (GMT)

I haven't completed said quest, yet I was able to purchase land (although from Brina Merilis, which gives some room for speculation). Is it possible that conquering the pale for the imperials and thus being friends with Brina makes it available to purchase land at the pale without the need to complete walking nightmare? — Unsigned comment by 85.53.65.172 (talk) at 16:35 on 6 October 2012‎

This never got answered. Yes, it does. Also, if you give the Pale to the Empire during Season Unending, Brina will thank you for your service and let you buy land, even if you're a Stormcloak. And if you then reconquer the Pale for the Stormcloaks, Skald will let you buy land too. Generally speaking the civil war lets you skip all the normal prerequisites for buying land and thane quests in holds switched by it (except for the Rift and Haafingar). --Morrolan (talk) 13:34, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

Housecarl timing

For one of my characters who was already Thane of the Pale prior to the installation of Hearthfire, Gregor was waiting inside the Jarl's hall (I forget the name now) in Dawnstar as soon as I purchased the plot of land. I do not recall if he was standing there when I entered the hall, but it was definitely before I'd even begun construction on the house. I suspect that, much like Lydia, if you are Thane before getting the residence, the housecarl will hang out in the appropriate hall until your house is built.Quillan (talk) 19:53, 8 October 2012 (GMT)

Just as an aside - I had Gregor showing up at Lakeview Manor while the small house was built, but before I furnished it. It seems he likes to sleep in a bed and that just happened to be my main residence at the time. Not tested for other residences. 69.106.48.192

update - just had Gregor show up at Lakeview after furnishing main house. Npc conflict? Uthgard is steward of Lakeview for me and Gregor is housecarl and steward for me. Hired bards (none showed up at Lake, but did in Morthal) and thought they'd hit it off - apparently not. Maybe he prefers his women a bit stronger? 107.192.193.123 21:16, 13 October 2012 (GMT)

I can confirm that the housecarls remain in the halls until you buy the plots. I don't think they show up at all until you are thane though. I haven't double checked this yet either but it seems to be possible at least in morthal to have the plot and be thane but valdimar won't show up by himself. Travelling to morthal woke up his AI and he ran off to labyrinthian at that point for some reason. I'm not quite sure how I became thane and bought the house without meeting him at first typically they approach you as you leave. Perhaps he was bugged in general that time. 87.194.26.132 21:25, 10 October 2012 (GMT)

Display cases not really a bug?

I don't think the fact that you can't place weapons in display cases is a bug, but rather an omission, in that Bethesda simply didn't implement the display cases to be interacted with. — Kunvulonin^{Künvülänin} 06:10, 26 October 2012 (GMT)

There are also some among us who think this was a deliberate design choice so that you could put whatever you want into these cases. The normal activator systems would prevent that from being possible. Arthmoor (talk) 08:45, 26 October 2012 (GMT)

It could be either, but we have no way of knowing. In any case, it's not specific to this house, so it should be moved to the main Hearthfire page instead of here. — ABCface^◥ 12:11, 26 October 2012 (GMT)

Loss of mouse and keyboard functions on fast-traveling here.

About half of the time when I fast-travel to Heljarchen Hall, when I arrive I can do nothing but turn around and around in one place with the mouse and open the console with the tilde key on the keyboard. All other keys and mouse functions are completely inoperable; I can neither move nor equip anything. This does not happen when fast-traveling to other places. If I use the console coc command to move elsewhere, when I arrive I am still frozen. The only way to deal with the situation is to alt-tab out of the game and then close it via its icon on the toolbar or by using the Task Manager. I seem to recall a console command that forced a return to control with the keyboard. That sounds hopeful but I cannot find it now. Does anyone have any suggestions? 174.6.51.17 03:32, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

Is enableplayercontrols the command you were thinking of? This allows player control in cinematic events that normally don't allow you do do anything (like during the opening sequence in the wagon with Ulfric). I wonder if entering disableplayercontrols followed by enableplayercontrols might fix your problem. I think I had this happen to me one time in 800+ hours of gameplay (just not at Heljarchen Hall, since I didn't install Hearthfire). You should also make sure that your mouse driver is up-to-date if you haven't already. --Xyzzy ^Talk 05:38, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

I doubt the mouse drivers have anything to do with it, otherwise you wouldn't be able to look around. Also, this would have no effect on the keyboard. The first suggestion sounds more likely. I just can't imagine how something like this could've happened. Do you have any unusual mods running? Try disabling some of them and see if the problem goes away. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 12:12, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

Did anyone ever track down this issue? I am having the same problem. Taurmin (talk) 18:36, 23 May 2013 (GMT)

Did you check any of the suggestions listed above (disabling and enabling player controls, disabling mods)? --Xyzzy ^Talk 22:53, 19 June 2013 (GMT)

(←) An earlier version of SkyUI (its map search feature more specifically, probably in version 3.4) was the cause of this problem. It is fixed in 4.0 though and no longer an issue. Kinlar (talk) 21:27, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

Bulfrek

According to the article, if Skald won't offer to sell you land for your homestead, you should try talking to Bulfrek, but doesn't give any other explanation, and his article doesn't mention anything about this. Does anybody have any insight into this that can be added to one or both of these articles? --Xyzzy ^Talk 00:02, 27 September 2014 (GMT)

Can't complete Heljarchen Hall

I've run into a bug that I've never experienced before with this rather buggy DLC on any of my playthroughs. (Playing on PC; don't know if that makes any difference.) After completing the small house layout (structure only), I started on the main hall, but couldn't really begin because I'd run out of sawn logs. Gregor nowhere to be seen, so I couldn't make him my steward to get him to buy lumber for me. Moseyed off to Winsted Manor (already completed) and got what's-his-name, my steward there, to get me a bunch of sawn logs; also went back to Lakeview Manor, my primary residence, to pick up a bunch of building materials I'd been keeping in readiness there. Finished the main hall structure and began furnishing. Went to add on some more wings and ... nothing available! Just a blank screen, or sometimes it'll offer the small house layout. Now, I'm accustomed to having to select the worktables, inside or outside, more than once to get them to accurately show the work that can be done, but this goes way beyond that. Usually, selecting (and getting an inaccurate list), quitting the window, and reselecting will clear things up and allow me to proceed normally. This time, nothing that I can think of to try seems to make any difference. Waiting, fast travel, quicksave/quickload, quitting to desktop and restarting the game; all been tried with no success. I've also tried completely furnishing the small house, something I didn't want to do since I'm going to convert it to an entry hall at my first opportunity. Didn't help. I'm at a loss. It's not like I need the house, since I already have two other Hearthfire houses, plus a couple in towns, but it'd be nice to get this loose end tied up.

I do have the Heljarchen Farm mod just up the hill, but that's never made a difference before. ```` — Unsigned comment by 174.56.243.121 (talk) at 22:34 on 16 August 2016 (UTC)

It's probably a mod conflict though. I've seen this bug too playing on 360, but yeah, normally reselecting the main work thingy works. Have you tried selecting a different work table in the same house area? I've had that help on occasion. --Morrolan (talk) 18:59, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Stewarded Follower Permanently Retires

So, I made Lydia steward. Not only will the furnishings and carriage I ordered never show up, but Lydia has decided she lives there full-time now; she gives the "Follow me" dialogue option, but won't actually follow me. I Googled this and it seems to be a common bug unique to Heljarchen Hall. I made Lydia steward of the other two houses (trying to get the achievement, but apparently I have a ways and a lot of iron to go yet), and there was no problem like this.

I'm playing the Special Edition on Xbone, and the only solutions I've seen involve heathen PC console witchcraft. I tried aggro'ing her and using a Calm spell; when she was outdoors for a minute, I tried pulling her via "Do something" into a fight with a nearby mammoth; I even tried having Delphine induct her into the Blades for the hell of it, and I swear the madwoman trekked halway across the province to swear her in and give her her gear, and the only difference is that Lydia is now wearing full samurai armor while she stands there stirring a cookpot going "I vow to rid Tamriel of all dragons."

At this point I'm figuring I'll just let her retire. If somebody who knows the wiki better could maybe indicate this serious bug on the main page for the house, in memory of this tragedy, I'd appreciate it. 108.251.252.87 04:15, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

The way you worded it isn't the best, but do I read it correctly that you have previously hired her as steward for the other two locations? Or do you mean you tested her in those locations but reloaded the saves. Stewards can only work properly for one location, they do not work properly nor are they supposed to be hireable for another location. This bug was fixed in USKP 1.1.0. If it is possible I would suggest loading a save prior to hiring her for your 2nd home, as you will be unable to use any of her services otherwise. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 19:53, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

...You what. Didn't expect that. :| ...Well, guess I'd better stock up on wood at Helarchen before building up the other two houses then. I swear it'd be easier and more consistent if that just kinda worked... 108.251.252.87 21:47, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Weapon disappears when finishing Small House

tl;dr: When I finished the Small House here, the bow I had in my inventory was taken from me and placed in the chest inside the Small House. I went inside the house and retrieved it from the chest and so far it's stayed in my inventory. This is on PS3, 1.9.31.0.8, no mods.

I had Auriel's Bow in my inventory and favorited while I was working on the Small House. The bow was selected (hollow arrowhead in my inventory), but not equipped. I think I had it in my hand when I first stepped up to the carpenter's workbench, so I got the animation of me stowing the bow on my back before the "hammering" animation started.

When I completed the Small House, I got the expected notifications at the top left of the screen about the parts of the building being added. I also got a notfication "Auriel's Bow removed", which I did not expect. I looked on the ground near the workbench outside, and in the chest next to the workbench, and didn't find it.

When you complete Small House, it comes with one chest inside, in the far corner from the door. I entered the house and looked in that chest and the bow was there. I took it from the chest and re-favorited it. So far, I have completed the Main Hall here as well, and it hasn't left my inventory again. I haven't started on building any of the wings, though.

I had previously bought the land and built all three wings on Lakeview Manor without this happening. I haven't even bought the land for Windstad Manor yet, so I don't know if this will happen there or not.

For now, I am filing it here; if anyone has seen this at the other two houses, it might be good to move it to the "general" house bugs page. 73.3.56.178 03:57, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

I built the three wings on Heljarchen Hall and nothing else odd happened with my weapons or other inventory while I was doing that. I also bought the land for Windstad Manor, and tried to induce this bug there. I saved before I started any construction, and then tried stepping up to the carpenter's workbench with different weapons either selected, or selected and in my hand. I couldn't repeat the bug - my weapons always stayed in my personal inventory and didn't move to the chest inside the Small House. So this may be specific to Heljarchen Hall. 73.3.56.178 04:47, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Steward Appearing in Random Places?

I've noticed with this house that my steward consistently shows up far, far away from this particular house--in places such as Honningbrew Meadery, Battle-born farm, or close to Winstad Manor. I find the steward by teleporting to the NPC using console commands. It's rather strange. The steward seems set to travel all the way to random far off locations (possibly the other Hearthfire houses, since these locations seem to be on the way to those areas?) on foot, leading to long periods of absence from the house. I've noticed the steward on multiple occasions walking far away from the house, and coming back from the same route days later. This doesn't happen with the stewards in my other houses. I've seen at least one other case of this of someone else having this issue--I don't know if it's particularly common or not. The steward does always come back after a while, but only stays for a short while.

A few things of note:

• I'm not using mods or creations.
• The steward I'm using is Illia, but I don't think the choice of NPC seems to make a difference, since other people encountering this bug I've seen on the internet seem to use different stewards. I suspect that the bug on Gregor's page may in fact be the bug I'm describing here, since people are likely to have made Gregor the steward of this house (since he's the housecarl).
• The steward's behavior seemed to be normal up until a certain stage in the development of my house. For me, this seemed to be the construction of the bedroom addition. Maybe the huge bedroom wing exterior blocks off one of the steward's spawn points and causes the NPC's wandering behavior to bug out?
• Overall, the wings I use are bedroom, storage, and kitchen for this particular house.
• This is the house where my Hearthfire family resides. No other NPCs at the house exhibit this behavior.
• I tend to go in and out of the house many times and fast travel to it frequently, since I store my items there. Maybe this increases the refresh rate or affects NPC behavior?

Is there any way to look at a steward's behavioral data and take a look at its travel schedule? Maybe that would be a good way to see what is going on for sure?

Vellup (talk) 02:40, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

The AI schedule for Heljarchen Hall's steward can be found here: BYOHHouseBuilding (0xHF00305d) under the heading "ALST=6; ALID=House3Steward" without the quotes. The AI package for the steward sleeping in the Main Hall double bed (which has the highest priority) directs him or her to the double bed in Windstad Manor (BYOHHouse2). This bug is fixed by the Unofficial Hearthfire Patch version 1.1.1. The Unoffical Hearthfire Patch also fixes the housecarl AI packages BYOHHousecarlHjaalmarchSandboxPlayerHouse and BYOHHousecarlPaleSandboxPlayerHouse so that they point to the right houses. The Unofficial Hearthfire and Legendary Edition Patches also makes changes to the ownership of beds in the Hearthfire homes so that stewards and bards can use them, I do not know if these changes have also been implemented in the Unofficial Special Edition Patch but I would assume so. Concerning using a housecarl as steward, my belief is that the steward AI schedule would trump the housecarl AI schedule since the former belongs to a quest whereas the latter does not.

I also think that it would be a good idea to add the AI schedule for stewards to the article Personal Steward since they (apart from the aforementioned bug) are basically the same as far as I can see. Maybe something similar can also be done for the Housecarl article although there may be some minor differences between the different housecarls (the rooms mentioned in the AI packages' Editor IDs have different numbers), I have not checked in the Creation Kit if these are of any significance. I hope this is helpful. GroverPlayerB (talk) 22:44, 1 January 2023 (UTC)