Online talk:Dark Brotherhood

PTS

Is it alright to edit this page with knowledge gained from the PTS? — Unsigned comment by Kinetically-Interlinked Nirnian Multi-User NthGen Exoform (talk • contribs) at 08:45 on 26 April 2016‎ (UTC)

Yes, it's marked as pre-release so that's perfectlly okay. —Legoless (talk) 09:57, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

The contracts..

Just to be sure.. Should we really make the individual pages for all contracts? I'm betting they have a bunch of randomly assigned NPCs for each location, but apart from that the quests are identical. I know the ones I completed were! The unique thing is however Elam Drals' quest completion dialogue as he will be making comments about different tasks, but this can just be added to his dialogue section. It's very similar to Kari's thieving quests in my opinion. Tib (talk) 20:04, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Well, we used the same approach for PvP quests. It's not ideal but I have no strong opinions about it. A single hub page might be more practical for these kinds of quests, as long as we keep the proper names as redirects for listing purposes. —Legoless (talk) 20:30, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Yeah how's that for a red and incomplete list. I'd definitely like the redirects unless somebody else strongly feels that this isn't the way to go. Tib (talk) 20:48, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Not sure really. Consistency would say that we should do them all (not actually sure how we decided that listing all the AvA Scout and Capture quests was a good idea, but there you go), but I haven't tested any of the Contracts yet to see how they work. They will almost certainly be copy/paste jobs though, if they were separate pages. --Enodoc (talk) 21:26, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Combining the PvP missions wouldn't be a terrible idea either. It's like Skyrim's radiant quests: lots of potential locations but a consistent quest structure. My only problem is that it would be a bit weird figuring out what to call the hub page, and how to best format it. It's also a departure from our usual approach to Online space, which kinda boils down to "all pages, all the time". —Legoless (talk) 22:53, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

(←) I've been doing a bunch of them on the PTS and I think having separate pages is better. Some things I noticed: The quest sends you to a random town in the zone, like Malabal Tor one has Vulkwasten/Valeguard/Baandari TP, but the target in that town isn't random and will always be in roughly the same place (like the one in Vulkwasten is always a female Breton, can't rmb the name). Thus there are actually different versions of Contract: Malabal Tor with different objectives and like Tib mentioned different NPC dialogue, but the names of the quests in your journal is the same. So perhaps we could call them Contract: Malabal Tor (1), Contract: Malabal Tor (2), Contract: Malabal Tor (3) etc.

As for the sprees, they just send you to a random town in the zone and tell you to just kill three people, doesn't matter who. We could just list the potential towns and leave it as such for the spree quests. Contraptions (talk) 04:42, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

"All pages, all the time" is probably the bot's fault, but if that's the approach, I guess we should stick to it. Naming the hub page would probably be easy though; "Capture Resource", "Capture Keep" and "Scout Objective" sound fine for the AvA missions, and "Contract: Zone" and "Contract: Zone Spree" are perfectly accurate (if a bit odd). I would suggest if we went that route that they would be formatted initially like any other quest page, with a list of the possible options underneath the walkthrough.

If we take the "all pages" route, I still don't think we should have different pages for the different versions of a single named contract though; there's only one page for all versions of Plucking Fingers, or Alchemist Writ, for comparison. --Enodoc (talk) 08:36, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I guess if the quest name is the same we can put all the info on the same page, but if the quest name is different then we should get separate pages. Not too keen on the hub pages though, since the DB page already lists all the quests for that faction under its own category. Contraptions (talk) 08:56, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

(←) Ok, yes, I hear you that the Online namespace has the multitude of pages-approach. Since I actually do not have any good suggestion of how a hub would look like, I'd be fine with having separate pages for separate zone contracts and sprees - for now. I unwillingly admit that it's quicker to copypaste than to make a re-design.

But perhaps integrating these could be a possibility in the future (and why not including the PvP quests). One reason it might be good to have this "redesign" in mind is that the quarterly DLC releases might bring more content like this. It would be an opportunity to improve the Online namespace. I'd also like to point out that the PvP quests currently seem far from complete, so we're not dealing with finished pages here. Additionally, it's not a huge revamp, because all-in-all it impacts a rather limited number of quests. I've added this as a "To-do" thingy in my sandbox, as something to think about.

Contraptions - well, yes the DB page lists all the quests, but that list was what prompted this thread in the first place :P In fact a "Contracts"-something link would look much nicer than list of 15x2 identical quests, which is very long and .. dno, gives a false impression of amounts of unique content which isn't there. I just don't see these quests as unique. And with random NPCs I expressed myself badly, sorry: I really meant randomly generated content from a small pre-defined pool. That's good material for "hub"-type stuff! Tib (talk) 15:01, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Here's an example of what a hub page could look like (ignore the stuff at the bottom, I don't do separate sandboxes for short-term things). Yes it's for AvA scouting, but that's because I haven't actually done any contracts yet, so I have no clue what their setup is. The PvP quests are largely incomplete solely because nobody can be bothered to do 144 C/P rotations. It's on my list of things to do sometime, though. --Enodoc (talk) 15:41, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Hm, this looks very nice. DB contracts are a bit different yes but this could serve as a basis. Tib (talk) 19:19, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

(←) I put some of the data I gathered on these Contracts in my sandbox - here. Er, I hope this works... I actually think one page could work for the whole bunch! But then redirects would probably be needed? And why not do the same for similar repeatable ESO quests as well, I guess it's really the PvP quests, not sure how Thieves Guild's quests are. I mean, as long as the users can find the information I do not see a point of having separate pages on content like this, or what do you think? Please help :) EDIT: The table of course should probably be made prettier, bold lines between zones etc, but well, it's a start. Tib (talk) 15:21, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Looks pretty good to me. I'd be fine with this approach as long as we use the redirects for Quest Links. —Legoless (talk) 11:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that works! Is Contract: Kvatch actually repeatable? It has its own objective text (I agreed to be initiated into the ways of the Dark Brotherhood's murder-for-hire contracts), so I thought it was a one-off "introductory" quest (and prerequisite to all the others) like The Cutpurse's Craft. Or can any of them be used as the initiation contract? --Enodoc (talk) 13:35, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Ah, yes, sorry. The first contract quest has indeed its own journal line, and I believe it is always Kvatch. But it is otherwise an exact copy of the contract quests. So I'm not sure what to do regarding this. Personally I'd say it doesn't deserve a separate page, however it should be noted that there is a first quest. I'm not sure whether there is a regular Kvatch contract, but I'm trying to cycle through quests to find out. Anyways, let's summarize some of my to-do thoughts -

1. Find more info + decide how to do with Kvatch contract.
2. Alliance factions? No AD quests offered to me (max level AD, unlocked all zones, completed silver/gold)
3. Patterns in Elam Drals dialogue (locations). Some lines "seem" generic... Not realistic to complete 100% before creating the page.
4. NPC targets. Not realistic to complete that 100% right now either.
5. Possible tweaks to layout -> create the page... soon! Tib (talk) 17:15, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I'd /bug that second point, doesn't sound intentional if you're only getting Almanac zones on PTS. —Legoless (talk) 17:19, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I tried to note that on the PTS forum section... might ask around once the dlc is released as well. Okay, I made the page because maybe it's better if others get opportunity to improve it as well ... So, the list is huge. I think it should be split into 3 faction specific tables to make it a bit easier to scroll through. Tib (talk) 19:09, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

I think there are enough differences for Kvatch that a separate page would be fine:

• It has its own journal entry
• It isn't repeatable
• It is given by Elam Drals, not the ledger
• It is prerequisite to all the others

Sure the setup is the same, but the functional differences should be important enough that a separate page is necessary (that's why we have three different versions of Messages Across Tamriel and Welcome to Cyrodiil, despite the same setup). --Enodoc (talk) 12:59, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

So many dots.. I understand and I agree, so I'm fixing it now. And, great job with the PvP quests! Nice improvement to the namespace! Tib (talk) 19:33, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

(←) I added the Kvatch contract back to this page since the repeatable quests list doesn't really do it justice. It's a bit messy but I think what we have is pretty functional now! —Legoless (talk) 19:47, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, true. It doesn't look too messy to me though, it looks rather good tbh! Tib (talk) 20:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there's any real need to hide all the contracts away on another page, just because there's a lot of them. Here's a setup that could work:

Contracts

Contract: Kvatch: Accept and carry out your first contract on behalf of the Dark Brotherhood. Dark Brotherhood Contracts: Carry out a contract on behalf of the Dark Brotherhood.

Contract: Alik'r Desert Contract: Auridon Contract: Bangkorai Contract: Deshaan Contract: Eastmarch Contract: Glenumbra Contract: Grahtwood Contract: Greenshade Contract: Malabal Tor Contract: Reaper's March Contract: Rivenspire Contract: Shadowfen Contract: Stonefalls Contract: Stormhaven Contract: The Rift

Contract: Alik'r Desert Spree Contract: Auridon Spree Contract: Bangkorai Spree Contract: Deshaan Spree Contract: Eastmarch Spree Contract: Glenumbra Spree Contract: Gold Coast Spree Contract: Grahtwood Spree Contract: Greenshade Spree Contract: Malabal Tor Spree Contract: Reaper's March Spree Contract: Rivenspire Spree Contract: Shadowfen Spree Contract: Stonefalls Spree Contract: Stormhaven Spree Contract: The Rift Spree

--Enodoc (talk) 23:37, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Rows would work, although I think it's important to keep this page small considering its importance as a skill page and faction page in addition to a quest list. Not too fussed either way, as long as we aren't treating the hub page as a real quest name. —Legoless (talk) 23:25, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

OK, so let's test it out like that, and if it doesn't work, we can always undo it :) --Enodoc (talk) 08:10, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

The single contracts and the killing sprees don't exactly line up because of the Gold Coast Spree. Would it be better if they did, and if, how to do so? -- SarthesArai ^Talk 16:11, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Sacraments

They seem to unlock after A Lesson in Silence. I'm not sure where to put this so noting it here. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 18:05, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

That's already noted on the respective sacrament quest pages. Contraptions (talk) 18:44, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, that would've been a good place to start looking. Nevermind me. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 18:49, 26 August 2016 (UTC)